Advice/opinions about PDF access/accessibility please
| brucelawson wrote: |
| Exactly what I mean!
How did you do the other options? View article as single page - paginated (default) Single-page printable version |
Each one is a different XSLT stylesheet applied to the underlying XML document generated by Amaxus.
You can see the untransformed XML, in all its glory, here:
http://www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conJmrArticle.28&showXml=1
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Hello,
As someone responsible for some of the XSL-FO, it's probably worth me chipping in (ta to Jim for pointing me in this direction).
I've uploaded an example of the XSLT we use to create the XSL-FO on the NMM site here: http://www.boxuk.com/dan/default.fo.xsl
It's designed for the kind of input (XML) that Jim pasted the URL for earlier, but it should be easy enough to translate so that it basically just converts XHTML into XSL-FO (the xhtml_to_fo template basically converts XHTML into XSL-FO; I can't take full credit for it, it started off elsewhere). The rest of the file is about adding the 'flows'/regions for headers and footers - does this answer your questions?
So, the way we do it: the system outputs XML, which gets converted to XHTML, then this gets transformed again using the attached XSLT (into an output XSL-FO file), which then gets processed with FOP to create the output!
If you're using FOP, it does have a few limitations (tables are pretty nasty, and you can't easily float images right or left). Well, it did the last time I checked anyway.
It is quite nice in that you can create RTF or PDF with the flick of a switch though (or a line of config, anyway).
If you have any specific questions, post them on here, or mail me!
Dan
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Thanks for that Dan, do you know if there is a way to include or define the 'tags' in the PDF that are required for accessibility?
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Hi,
I'm afraid I don't know, but the results from a quick google don't look hopeful:
| Quote: |
| I quizzed the Adobe guys about dynamically generating PDFs using XSL-FO - at the moment FOP cannot generate tagged PDFs, so that makes creating accessible PDFs impossible. |
from: http://www.isolani.co.uk/blog/access/RnibAccessiblePdfMediaBriefing
I'll have a bit more of a hunt around, but it looks like it may be some proprietary coding in the Adobe PDF format that isn't available in the XSL-FO standard...
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Certainly, in a certain excellent book on Accessibility, Andrew Kirkpatrick (now of Adobe, then of the National Centre for Accessible Media) writes in a chapter on Accessible PDF:
"The accessibility story for PDF creation largely centers around Adobe's own products. At the time of writing, only two non-Adobe products (Open Office and the Microsoft Office 12 beta) are able to create PDF documents with tags."
[edit]However, they're not necessarily completely *in*accessible; the example on Jim's site http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.1498 is text which the readaloud function in Adobe Reader has no trouble accessing. If you're offering delightfully semantic html as the primary delivery mechanism, then the PDF is like unobtrusive JavaScript; icing on the cake, in my opinion.[edit]
www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
Last edited by brucelawson on 27 Sep 2006 04:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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| brucelawson wrote: |
| Certainly, in a certain excellent book on Accessibility, |
Would this excellent book be available at a reasonable price from good bookstores everywhere?
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| brucelawson wrote: |
| "The accessibility story for PDF creation largely centers around Adobe's own products. At the time of writing, only two non-Adobe products (Open Office and the Microsoft Office 12 beta) are able to create PDF documents with tags." |
Thanks for that, but I was hoping there was a server side method, perhaps an update to Isolani's post. I didn't know about Office 12 (2007?) though, I'll try out that beta when my windows PC works again.
The main problem with Open Office and probably Office 12, is that you would still have to use Acrobat Pro to correct any problems, or even know if there are problems.
[edit after a re-read of other posts]
I'm not sure that you can raise the proprietary code flag here, Adobe use a published format that tags has been a part of since 2000ish, but it probably hasn't been on the radar for other people.
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| brucelawson wrote: |
| However, they're not necessarily *in*accessible; the example on Jim's site is text which the readaloud function in Adobe Reader has no trouble accessing. |
Can it pick out headings in an article, or is it just one big wodge of text to a screenreader?
On the accessibility side - hooray for Amaxus!
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Although I can't find anything about tagged pdfs in the latest XSL-FO spec or the FOP site, Antenna House (who produce a commercial XSL-FO renderer) can apparently create tagged PDFs:
http://www.antennahouse.com/product/axfo40/pdfoutput.htm#taggedpdf
Although the documentation does use such great words as "structurizing" and "otherwize"...
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| eatyourgreens wrote: |
|
Can it pick out headings in an article, or is it just one big wodge of text to a screenreader? |
Only tried it with the "secret" readaloud function in Adobe reader (Shift+CTRL+V = read this page, Shift+ CTRL + B = read to end of document), but that never knows about structure, even in tagged PDFs.
My JAWS has died, so do n't know if it will recognise headings (tho I seem to recall only JAWS 7 can do headings, and I don't have him).
[Edit]Resurrected JAWS 5 read your PDF no trouble at all, but as a great wodge of text[end Edit]
www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
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| brucelawson wrote: |
| However, they're not necessarily completely *in*accessible; the example on Jim's site http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.1498 is text which the readaloud function in Adobe Reader has no trouble accessing. |
Indeed, there are several broad levels of accessibility in PDFs. Four by my reckoning...
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The cost of making PDF files accessible is prohibitive in many cases (I've been through the pain!)
If there are a lot of files that need to be made available to the public in an accessible form then maybe it's worth looking at a high volume PDF-HTML conversion service.
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How well does your PDF - HTML conversion do, Grant? How much does it cost?www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
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Hi Bruce, at the moment it's a semi-automated process that is far better than any non-manual process and many times quicker than a manual process.
It needs some work but we can confidently produce some nice structural, standards compliant HTML. There are a couple of issues we need to solve with the XSLT, nothing problematic, we just need a little more time. We're currently building a XHTML (strict) XSLT.
We're currently looking to run a couple of pilots with some customers who have a little patience with us while we improve this new service.
We will need to complete these pilots before we finalise the cost but we believe it will be probably be around £3-4 per PDF page and dependent on volume. Those who take part in the pilot scheme will be able to get a substantial discount for helping us tighten up our service.
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Jim (or any other Amaxus user)
Got any comments on the Visual Editor that the CMS has?
I've been looking at XStandard and would hope that Amaxus has a visual editor that's as good as that, or can be modified to allow XStandard to be used by non-techie staff.
(Or Macromedia Contibute, if that's still going?)
b
www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
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