Jaws and Flash Object
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I stumbled across this board while searching for an answer, although I am afraid that I may already have it. Regardless, I am going to post my issue, and see if it's possible, and if not, what a good workaround may be.
First, the issue:
From what I have read, JAWS does not support embedded Flash files via the SWFObject of FlashObj method (using Javascript to embed the Flash file).
Is this true? We have an old version of JAWS so I am wondering if maybe it now supports it? If not (and understandably so) what would be a good comprimise?
I am using full Flash for e-Learning/courseware, and we are now tasked with building a 508 version of it complete with screen readable text. We already have the task of going through our Flash files that have been built, and changing the text fields and such so they are readable (in addition to adding tab indexes and more). I know a simple resolution is to just revert back to a normal object tag, but if I go that route, I lose my ability to push in dynamic content via javascript (onload).
Any help or recommendations you could give would be greatly appreciated. We're really looking for a quick fix, but also I want to make sure that for future applications, when my company knows that there will be a 508 course in conjunction with the full-version, perhaps we will build it more smartly to avoid these obstacles.
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It is not possible in Firefox or Safari to make JAWS read the Flash objects (i believe)
This is because access to the text by the screen reader is only possible through the MS propriatory interface.
http://www.webaim.org/...
If you want to offer automatic self voiceing of Flash available to all major browsers, you may want to look at Talklets (interest declared).
http://www.talklets.com/...
Cheers
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creator of Talklets
Talklets ,
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How does JAWS deal with sIFRed text just out of interest?
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interesting concept.
I can't highlight/select across text and sifr text. Which is often a means of selcting wht you want to read if you're dyslexic or otherwise sighted but using text to speech.
While the Talklets API could be used to make the mouse over work (again for those not entirely blind), I'm getting nothing on mouse over.
My guess is this wouldn't be accessible in firefox via AT.
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creator of Talklets
Talklets ,
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| Java wrote: |
| From what I have read, JAWS does not support embedded Flash files via the SWFObject of FlashObj method (using Javascript to embed the Flash file).
Is this true? |
I don't think so, we use a JavaScript method (example) which we tested extensively with Jaws & others.
OTOH, if you don't have a recent flash pluggin (or turn it off for the site), you get standard web content anyway...
There is a keyboard issue with Flash & Firefox, but I don't think it affects screen readers (and it is an issue that Adobe/Mozilla need to sort out).
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Nomensa / AlastairC
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My impression is that the biggest difficulty with Flash has been that it makes developing rich interfaces very easy without building in that much accessibility automatically. So developer ignorance of and indifference to accessibility has been more costly for Flash content's de facto accessibility, and screen reader users' trust of such content, than similar ignorance and indifference in HTML's case. While Flash does offer an accessibility feature set, there are also technical limitations at the moment.
Screen reader difficulties with Flash have nothing to do with the MSAA (Microsoft Active Accessibility) framework being proprietary. One big problem has been that Adobe has not made fuller use of such accessibility frameworks to expose Flash content and controls to assistive technology. On the Windows platform, there are two Flash plugins: one based on ActiveX (typically used in Internet Explorer) and one based on the Netscape plugin API (used in Firefox and Opera). Since version 6.0, the ActiveX plugin has exposed Flash content to MSAA. But this capability has only just been added in the latest development release of the Netscape plugin API:
http://labs.adobe.com/...
On other platforms, different accessibility frameworks are in use (AT-SPI on GNOME, Universal Access on Mac OS X). Adobe does not yet support any of these other frameworks, and neither does the clean-room reverse engineered FOSS Flash player, Gnash:
http://savannah.gnu.org/...
Although the next release of Flash will finally enable screen readers to access Flash controls in Firefox on Windows, there are still other major accessibility problems in browsers other than Internet Explorer. In particular, Firefox has a serious bug in which it is possible to tab into plugin content areas but impossible to return focus to the browser without using the mouse or mouse keys:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348279
For a good list of ongoing Flash accessibility problems see:
http://niquimerret.com/...
On top of Flash's own problems, there are additional problems for assistive technology that can be introduced by JavaScript-based methods of inserting Flash content. I suspect this has more to do with screen readers' failure to reflect changes in the DOM then any problem with Flash per se. Screen readers face similar difficulties with web apps that use JavaScript to add new content. See especially:
http://juicystudio.com/...
http://juicystudio.com/...
The only public accessibility tests of JavaScript-based Flash embedding techniques I've seen is now rather old:
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/...
Alastc, are the details of your tests public anywhere? Did you evaluate various different methods, or just the one you ended up using?
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| benjaminhawkeslewis wrote: |
| The only public accessibility tests of JavaScript-based Flash embedding techniques I've seen is now rather old...
Alastc, are the details of your tests public anywhere? Did you evaluate various different methods, or just the one you ended up using? |
I'm not sure what you mean, there are various JavaScript and non-JavaScript methods, they don't have a lot of impact on actual accessibility (barring the JavaScript requirement). What took the testing was the actual Flash SWF, and getting that to work well with screen readers.
NB: My understanding of the screen readers and Flash/AJAX is (in general) that if page/object updates on enter/space, the screen reader will refresh the cache.
I agree with the extra effort it takes for Flash and others, but given the similar coding style between Flash & JavaScript, and the integration you can have with Flash & JavaScript, using a JS method of embeding makes a lot of sense.
I wrote up the reasoning for that previous example in CMS editable flash, is that what you had in mind?
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Nomensa / AlastairC
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Hi All,
First of all, implementing accessibility after completing the entire production is a nightmare. I have done it for 2-3 courses consisting of 20 odd modules.
The thing is, developers and designers don't think of accessibility during the production. They make use of unnecessary things like movie clips, buttons where they are not needed. But when you access the course through a screen reader, all the crap we have done comes in front.
So, the only way to make the course accessible is to clean up all the dirty stuff we have used, which will take same time as your production (my experience)
The places where a simple shape would have done, the designers uses movie clips, which causes problems with screen readers, screen reader identifies it and start speaking it out in a random order and since alt is not provided to the movie clip it will catch hold of the nearest text and stick it as a name of that movie clip.
All in all a difficult task to accomplish.
If you need any help please let me know...
Thanks
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