Is there list of MOST POPULAR TTS software products in UK?
Hi guys
I work for a large company in the City, and am their accessibility tester (among other things).
I test all our websites before they go live for AA compliance. I also check every page on TTS software. Up until now I had only been using NVDA, largely because it's free and nice and easy.
However, we have discovered that a blind user was having problems with a particular page and he was using Supernova. I installed a 30-day trial version of Supernova and, to my horror, discovered that indeed I was unable to expand a vital part of a table (what looks to me to be completely accessible Javascript expand option in a table).
Indeed, if I then turn off Supernova, refresh the page, I can expand this table without any problems. With NVDA I can easily tab onto it and hit enter to expand it. It works a treat.
But as soon as I switch Supernova on, I cannot expand it, (not even with the mouse!)
I am going to get our techie guys to look more into this, and see what could be wrong. But it's become obvious to me that if I am going to test websites for accessibility, NVDA is not enough.
I know Supernova comes well recommended (second on http://screen-reader-software-review.toptenreviews.com/ chart) but I need to know what are the MOST POPULAR in order, as our budget won't stretch to buying more than one or at most two more pieces of TTS software. Furthermore, with just me testing everything, I don't have enough hours in the day to test sites using multiple TTS software, so if I can see a list somewhere of the most popular in the UK, this would be a good guide.
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You might want to see if these can do some of the testing for you: LabscapeDesign, development and marketing for the web.
Edge Three Sixty Ltd: Web Design Liverpool
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There's no end of companies out there who could probably help, but ideally it's something we'd like to keep in-house. I already do accessibility testing, and for TTS I use NVDA. So what I really need to know is what are the UK's most POPULAR TTS software (other than NVDA) --- not the BEST, I can see that Jaws followed by Supernova are considered the best... I mean, most popular, because then I can at least ensure that everything gets read out on those systems.
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Perhaps you could ask the RNIB? They may have data on which are used most.Accessify Forum Administrator ~ Nigel Peck / MIS Web Design
"Everything I say is not meant to be set in stone" - Van Morrison
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Thanks, that's not a bad idea. I'll contact their Information Officer this afternoon.
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Sorry I am not fully expert with NVDA or Supernova but found a link (http://www.facejar.com/section/video/?lookupVideoKeyword=How+to+work+with+Bugzilla+part&lookupVideoId=brYdN6K1U84&type=search) about bugzilla hope this can help you. Good luck. 
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Could you show us a static copy of the page, online? Or a reduced example which shows the problem?
Assistive Technology shouldn't stop things from working, although it may adapt how they work and provide extra ways to do things. for Supernova to stop the mouse working in this particular instance sounds like a small, rare bug in that software.
We'd need to see the exact code to say with any certainty, though. Placeholder content would be fine for us to do that.
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| Vahid wrote: |
| Sorry I am not fully expert with NVDA or Supernova but found a link (http://www.facejar.com/section/video/?lookupVideoKeyword=How+to+work+with+Bugzilla+part&lookupVideoId=brYdN6K1U84&type=search) about bugzilla hope this can help you. Good luck. |
This is issue-tracking software, not what I'm after at all but thanks all the same for the help.
In the end, we've managed to establish that the Javascript table we'd designed (which has a drop-down in the middle which when you expand you can see a list of clickable options) does not work when Supernova is switched on -- which is why the blind user was unable to access the clickable options. As soon as you turn Supernova off, you are able to tab to the menu, hit return and expand the menu. With NVDA, it all works perfectly, and everything gets read out as it should. This is a problem that only happens with Supernova. Before spending a lot of time and resources trying to work out why this happens, it would be good to establish what are the most popular software so that we can use these as our minimum requirements when building Javascript.
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| Ben Millard wrote: |
| Could you show us a static copy of the page, online? Or a reduced example which shows the problem?
Assistive Technology shouldn't stop things from working, although it may adapt how they work and provide extra ways to do things. for Supernova to stop the mouse working in this particular instance sounds like a small, rare bug in that software. We'd need to see the exact code to say with any certainty, though. Placeholder content would be fine for us to do that. |
I will send something up here across shortly, thanks!
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Unfortunately, my free trial version of Supernova has now expired. However, I did keep a record of the JS error that came up, fortunately.
First of all, I have logged in to the site using a dummy account. In this site, you can view a portfolio of the money you have invested, and the idea is you can expand the plus sign in the table to view each fund and then click on it to open a detailed PDF about the fund.
When you have Supernova disabled, you can navigate everywhere using keyboard alone. Everything is a clickable link. The black box shows clearly a focus whenever you tab around on the page. So you tab to your LUMP SUM ISA:
Hit return and it expands:
Tab onto the option you want:
And then hit return and it downloads the PDF in question:
No keyboard needed.
When I use NVDA, everything gets read out as it should. So this is a pretty accessible piece of Javascript (you'd have thought), which works without needing a mouse, and works beautifully with NVDA text-to-speech software.
But AS SOON as you run Supernova in the background, the initial LUMP SUM ISA option is no longer a clickable link. You cannot tab onto it. You cannot even open it with the mouse. Which is why this page will not work when Supernova is running. It doesn't highlight when you tab to it, you simply cannot tab to it, it's not regarded as a link.
I don't know really what this means, but in the bottom left hand corner the little yellow warning triangle comes up when on this page (again, only when Supernova is running).
This is what it says (I logged in with dummy data):
Please note that I have replaced our domain name with %%%%%%%%%%%% but if you need to view this file then let me know.
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Webpage error details User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.648; .NET CLR 3.5.21022; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C) Timestamp: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:04:43 UTC Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Object doesn't support this property or method Line: 573 Char: 4 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/functions.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js Message: Exception thrown and not caught Line: 3 Char: 2424 Code: 0 URI: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%/web_resources/secure/utisa/javascript/jquery-1.6.1.min.js |
I am not entirely sure what that would tell us.
As for the table, here is the code for it. Please note that this is for a different (dummy) fund, as the old dummy fund has been deleted. But the code won't be any different, apart from references to different ISAs and cash. I have however substituted part of one URL with a load of %%%%%%%%%%%%%%% signs as it shows information I do not wish to put on a public forum. As this is just an A HREF link to
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<!-- Portfolio Table --> <tr id="parent-1"> <td class="tint-16 upperc" colspan="4"> <a href="#" class="plus">LUMP SUM ISA</a> </td> <td class="tint-16 strong">£622.75</td> </tr> <tr class="child parent-1 last"><!--Start UTISA_KIID_102536_CR03--> <td ><div class="document-icon"><a target="new_window" href="http://doc.morningstar.com/LatestDoc.aspx?clientid=%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%" rel="pdf" title="Japan Index Trust (R) (Acc) PDF KIID">Japan Index Trust (R) (Acc)</a> <span class="file-info">KIID PDF: 149KB</span></div> <div class="document-icon"><a target="new_window" href="http://www.fundslibrary.co.uk/fundslibrary.dataretrieval/documents.aspx?user=%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%" rel="pdf" title="Japan Index Trust (R) (Acc) PDF factsheet">Japan Index Trust (R) (Acc)</a> <span class="file-info">factsheet PDF: 149KB</span></div> </td><!--End UTISA_KIID_102536_CR03--> <td >2057.993</td> <td >30.26</td> <td >30.26</td> <td class="strong">£622.75</td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </fieldset> </form> </div> </div> |
We take accessibility very seriously and we want everything to be 100% AA compliant by the end of 2012. At the moment, this page passes our accessibility testing but if it does not work for people with Supernova then we need to be changing our accessibility testing.
Which brings me back of course to my initial question: where does it end? There are so many different TTS software packages out there (TextAloud, TalkForMe, Kurzweil, Read & Write, ClaroRead, Outloud, TextSpeaker, Ultra Hal, Sestek, TextSpeechPro, Ginger/Acapela, Supernova, JAWS and of course NVDA to name a few) but there aren't enough hours in the day to test our sites on all these things. One would have thought that testing a website on NVDA would be enough! (I also test our sites for people with various other impairments of course, eg ensuring colours are compliant, ensuring that there is clear focus on everything when using TAB to navigate through the document, ensuring that everything opens and closes using keyboard alone, etc.... And when I did the latter test with NVDA it worked, so I signed this off as compliant. But then discovered that the form won't work/expand once Supernova is running in the background.
Seems quite crazy. Any help appreciated!
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Pasting big lumps of code is hard to work with and most of the page is missing. we need to see if 'live' on a web server in order to troubleshoot it propwrly.
Also, those big samples make the topic very long. It's going to cause a lot of worn-out scrollwheels!
From the sound of it, the screenreader is affecting the code which runs inside the pae. that would be a serious bug in the screenreader, so not a problem with the page. But that's still just a guess, in the absence of a complete demo page.
Are you using Internet Explorer 8 for both screenreaders you have tried?
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