Will PAS 78 make an impact on UK Website Development?
Will PAS 78 make an impact on UK Website Development?
Yes
65%
[ 19 ]
No
34%
[ 10 ]
Total Votes : 29
Will this new document represent a major change in the development of websites in the next two years?
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Haven't got hold of a copy yet, but I can certainly see that the document has made quite an impact already. Let's hope it changes some ways.Jon Gibbins, dotjay.co.uk, accessibility.co.uk wiki.
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I don't think it will do anything without effort on the part of accessibility advocates, especially the people that use this forum.
PAS 78 needs to sprout wings to have any effect on the business sector. I hope that many who participate in this forum will talk about the PAS to anyone who'll listen (and to everyone who won't!).
Julie
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Let's hope it makes a difference, by
- marginalising the snakeoil salesmen
- alerting commissioners that there are objectively measurable standards for web development
- skilling up in-house development teams.
It's very much up to people on this board to write up their thoughts on the PAS, post it on their sites, discuss it, tell clients and colleagues about it to ensure some buzz and to make certain it doesn't wither on the vine.
www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
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wow, Jooly: jinx!www.brucelawson.co.uk
Web Evanglist, Opera, WaSP Accesibility Task Force
Study the Web Standards Curriculum
International Lothario (retired)
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| JulieHowell wrote: |
|
PAS 78 needs to sprout wings to have any effect on the business sector. I hope that many who participate in this forum will talk about the PAS to anyone who'll listen (and to everyone who won't!). |
as i wrote on the feedback sheet for the day as well, we need to target business owners and corporations as part of general "best practices / how to make more money" kind of events, not something specifically billed as "accessibility", so as not to preach to the choir.
i for one plan to spread the message far and wide through local business development groups and things like the manchester digital development agency (incidentally, we'd still love you to come over for an evening, julie).
Patrick H. Lauke / webmaster / University of Salford
co-lead: WaSP Accesibility Task Force
take it to the streets ... WaSP Street Team
personal: splintered | photographia | redux
co-author: Web Accessibility - Web Standards and Regulatory Compliance
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| redux wrote: |
|
as i wrote on the feedback sheet for the day as well, we need to target business owners and corporations as part of general "best practices / how to make more money" kind of events, not something specifically billed as "accessibility", so as not to preach to the choir. i for one plan to spread the message far and wide through local business development groups and things like the manchester digital development agency (incidentally, we'd still love you to come over for an evening, julie). |
Thanks Patrick. I didn't get to see the feedback from the launch event yet, but suspect I will eventually.
As it happens, I'm going to be in Manchester for about a week mid/end April because of this: http://www.justgiving.com/joolyatmaterialgirls and this: http://www.msconvention.org.uk (I'm hosting a huge party for people with MS there). So if I can see your group on... say the eve of Thurs 20 or Fri 21 April or Monday 24 (tho pref not in eve for that one) that would suit me. It's harder for me to come to Manc since I moved to P'boro so this seems like a good opportunity.
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I think it will definitely make an impact, even if it is only used as a buzzword. Much like "WCAG AAA Compliance" has been. It will keep accessibility on the radar and lever it into a few more corporate strategies, even if website designers overstate their abilities and create sites which don't actually fulfill all its requirements fully.
I think it will help to accelerate accessibility and other good practise, but won't solve everything overnight. Over the next two years I expect it's biggest impact will be on public sector websites, since they can be lobbied more directly by the institutes backing PAS 78.
I reckon that blogs and tutorials will be essential in keeping it alive and aiding developers to implement its guidance correctly, especially since it has a price tag. I'm not sure whether I'll buy a copy or not...guess it depends how my meagre earnings from freelancing pan out over the next month.
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| brucelawson wrote: |
| ..........
It's very much up to people on this board to write up their thoughts on the PAS, post it on their sites, discuss it, tell clients and colleagues about it to ensure some buzz and to make certain it doesn't wither on the vine. |
Yabbut - if I say go look at PAS 78, that means go look at PAS 78 if you want to spend £30 to see if there is something in it. Whereas if I say go look at Section 508 it's all there. Free. Kinda accessible, that.
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| kiwibrit wrote: | ||
Yabbut - if I say go look at PAS 78, that means go look at PAS 78 if you want to spend £30 to see if there is something in it.... Free. Kinda accessible, that. |
Here here, I would like to look at PAS 78 but not bad enough to part with £30 of my hard earned. I don't think that there is any way my employer would pay for it so it looks like I will have to look out for the writeups.
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| kiwibrit wrote: |
| Whereas if I say go look at Section 508 it's all there. Free. Kinda accessible, that. |
Which is inapplicable unless you are a US government agency, or a business working with a US government agency. That doesn't solve the problem PAS addresses which is: "I have a UK business and I want a new website, what must I do to meet my obligations under the Disability Discrimination Act".
The problem out there before PAS 78, was that there was no centralised, and conflict-free answer to that question. PAS 78 brings together all the knowledge out there into one centralised document that applies to UK businesses. PAS 78 solves that problem for businesses.
You won't believe the amount of misinformation inside big companies about web accessibility. This is the document I wish I had three and a half years ago.
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So how about the RNIB lobbying the secretary of state to invoke Section 508 as applicable to UK web sites for UK DDA purposes.
Failing that, a covering note stating how Section 508 principles should be applied to UK sites?
My chances of getting trade viewers to inspect a free document are far higher than expecting them to dig out their credit cards.
With regard to Section 508 I sense a bit of "not-invented-here" syndrome.
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| Isofarro wrote: | ||
Which is inapplicable unless you are a US government agency, or a business working with a US government agency. That doesn't solve the problem PAS addresses |
Whilst I too hope that PAS 78 is the panacea that it is touted to be, I believe what Kiwibrit was getting at is that the 508 guidelines are publically and freely available which seems to be the best idea.
Sure, if they want a paper based reference then charge for a hard-copy of the document, but making the information available to as many people as possible is surely better for everyone?.
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| asaxton wrote: |
| Sure, if they want a paper based reference then charge for a hard-copy of the document, but making the information available to as many people as possible is surely better for everyone?. |
No. That wouldn't cover the BSI costs. We've been spoilt for too long by free recommendations from the W3C. Its an unsustainable fallacy to believe all documentation of standards or best practices should then be free.
Time was taken to manage and produce this document. Whether its in hardcopy or softcopy is irrelevant, the time and cost taken to produce the content remains the same.
Consider O'Reilly - they charge for their hardcopy books, as well as charge a monthly subscription fee for their online bookshelf. Its the same business model. Standards creators and publishers have the right to make a living providing services and content as their colleagues in the authoring world.
You can chose not to buy a newspaper, a book, a movie, a television license. You can chose not to pay £30 for a best practices guide for producing accessible sites. You can chose to use a freebie that does not apply to UK businesses, you can chose to create your own PAS alternative.
I find it in poor taste to begrudge a standards organisation £30 for a standards document they worked 11 months to produce. Not to mention managing a review cycle involving 120+ organisations.
If you want to publish your own material for no charge - good for you, but that creates no obligations on anyone else.
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Iso, I think you might have misunderstood what people have been getting at by commentng on the document requiring a charge.
Of course BSI can't be expected to work for nothing, the problem is that making end users pay for the standard and restricting its distribution mean it won't be as widespread as a freely available and less restricted standard. Obviously BSI have to get funding from somewhere, which I think is why people have mentioned W3C. W3C are funded by large companies so that the public can freely access their standards. That means their standards become widespread and can be mirrored at other websites, downloaded to an intranet or printed out. This also reduces the cost of distributing their standards, although the cost of creating them remains the same.
What people are asking is whether it would be possible for BSI to make this document available on a similar basis. That is, their costs for this report would be covered by sponsors (perhaps including government). They would then allow it to be redistributed freely to reduce costs, which would increase its availability and therefore any positive effect it will have over website development.
Nobody is suggesting that BSI's work is trivial. Indeed, the eagerness to receive and disseminate copies of the document actually indicates how strongly supported the document is!
All that is being suggested (as far as I can tell) is that if it were possible, free distribution of this document would be better than purchasing it for limited distribution. If that isn't possible then £30 isn't a massive amount, not very much more than an authoritative book (as you rightly point out).
Last edited by Ben Millard on 13 Mar 2006 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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