Best way to mark up quoted dialogue?
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I want to mark this up:
| Ben Millard and Evesham's Technical Support wrote: |
| Technical Support:
"Are you absolutely sure it is plugged in, Mr Millard?" Me: "Yes, I am absolutely sure." Support: "Can you check the plug for me again, please?" Me: "OK...right, I've checked both ends and it's definitely plugged in." Support: "Sorry, I don't understand...?" Me: "It is connected at both ends." Support: "I'm sorry, what are you saying?" Me: "One end of the cable is plugged into the wall. The other end is plugged into the computer. It is definitely plugged in." |
At the moment, after talking with Zcorpan, I'm going with this:
| Code: |
| <div class="dialogue">
<p><cite>Support:</cite> “Are you absolutely sure it is plugged in, Mr Millard?” <p><cite>Me:</cite> “Yes, I am absolutely sure.” <p><cite>Support:</cite> “Can you check the plug for me again, please?” <p><cite>Me:</cite> “OK...right, I’ve checked both ends and it’s definitely plugged in.” <p><cite>Support:</cite> “Sorry, I don’t understand...?” <p><cite>Me:</cite> It is connected at both ends. <p><cite>Support:</cite> “I’m sorry, what are you saying?” <p><cite>Me:</cite> “One end of the cable is plugged into the wall. The other end is plugged into the computer. It is definitely plugged in.” </div> |
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My CV type thing and my Life of Ben (Blog). Nigel Peck's Accessify Forum Requirements.
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That seems to me like the most semantic way to mark it up but I don't think a defination list would be inapporpritae either._________________
Jonathan Worent
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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The W3C HTML 4 recommendation seems to suggest a definition list is alright:
http://www.w3.org/...
"Another application of DL, for example, is for marking up dialogues, with each DT naming a speaker, and each DD containing his or her words."
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Is the person speaking really a citation or reference to another source?
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In the definition for <cite>, if you scroll down a bit it gives this example:
| W3C wrote: |
| As <CITE>Harry S. Truman</CITE> said,
<Q lang="en-us">The buck stops here.</Q> |
It doesn't say "the quote must appear in the source code after the citation" or anything, so I don't think you necessarily need the <q>. The two elements aren't obviously linked together; it seems more about how the name is being used.
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My CV type thing and my Life of Ben (Blog). Nigel Peck's Accessify Forum Requirements.
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How about using <p> with a class selector in CSS to space and position the text_________________
Mike Abbott
Accessible to everyone
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If you fancy experimenting with XML, there's always the TEI base tag set for drama.
which has elements for speaker, speech and structures within the speech - lines, paragraphs, quotations etc. Probably overkill for this but it's about as semantic as you can get for describing the structure of a dialogue:
| Code: |
| <!-- in the front matter ... -->
<castList> <!-- ... --> <castItem> <role id="m2">Menaechmus</role> </castItem> <castItem> <role id="pen">Peniculus</role> </castItem> <!-- ... --> </castList> <!-- ... --> <!-- in the text ... --> <sp who="m2"> <speaker>Menaechmus</speaker> <l>Responde, adulescens, quaeso, quid nomen tibist?</l> </sp> <sp who="pen"> <speaker>Peniculus</speaker> <l>Etiam derides, quasi nomen non noveris?</l> </sp> <sp who="m2"> <speaker>Menaechmus</speaker> <l>Non edepol ego te, quot sciam, umquam ante hunc diem</l> <l>Vidi neque novi; ...</l> </sp> |
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Jim O'Donnell
work: Royal Observatory Greenwich
play: eatyourgreens
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| Cerbera wrote: | ||
In the definition for <cite>, if you scroll down a bit it gives this example:
|
I'd say using cite for dialogue is inappropriate. This example seems to be a quote in isolation which is OK. Personally, I'd use <dl>. It may have semantic arguments against it but, as I think I've said before, the example uses given by the W3C suggest to me that the name 'definition list' is perhaps artificially limiting the scope of usefulness i.e. it's not just for definitions.
Cheers
Kevin
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| Cerbera wrote: |
| I can't think of a sensible way of doing it, unless it's OK to use <dl>? |
I have this problem myself; <dl> doesn't feel right, but it's probably the best, if slightly mis-matched, tool for the job. But it's not ideal.
To be honest, different times I try different things to see how they come out but I think <dl> is my preferred option...
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Jack Pickard The Pickards Information Services| Blog | Twit
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But surely <dl> is for listing, <p> is for dialogue therefore it should be <p> with class selectors to change the appearance. How would a screenreader read a <dl> compared to <p> 
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Mike Abbott
Accessible to everyone
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Hmmm, blockquote probably makes as much sense as you appear to be quoting a long conversiontion._________________
};-) http://www.xhtmlcoder.com/
WVYFC chose the Yorkshire Air Ambulance as the main charity to fund raise for in 2006
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| Mikea wrote: |
| How would a screenreader read a <dl> compared to <p> |
Very slowly and painfully, announcing every term and definition, I think.
Here's the advice I got about screenreaders and <dl>, which tipped me in favour of not using them:
| Quote: |
| Definition lists are a nuisance when used with a screenreader because
it adds redundant "noise" by announcing the type of list and sometimes whether it's the term or the description - most users I know complain bitterly about them when they encounter them. Kind of a "too much information" thing. |
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Jim O'Donnell
work: Royal Observatory Greenwich
play: eatyourgreens
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| eatyourgreens wrote: | ||
Very slowly and painfully, announcing every term and definition, I think. Here's the advice I got about screenreaders and <dl>, which tipped me in favour of not using them: |
So it's one of those situations where you have to decide whether to deal with the faults of the user agent or do what the spec says. I love how this game is always so clear cut
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http://listserver.dreamhost.com/...
FWIW, I think <dl> is inappropriate for dialogue too (dispite HTML4 suggesting it). A dialogue isn't really a list, and <dl> is unordered to boot.
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Simon Pieters
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| zcorpan wrote: |
| http://listserver.dreamhost.com/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-October/007348.html
FWIW, I think <dl> is inappropriate for dialogue too (dispite HTML4 suggesting it). A dialogue isn't really a list, and <dl> is unordered to boot. |
So much for Web Standards then
. All too often people complain that standards are vague yet here the W3C gives a clear statement on how to use their markup. It might not feel right but if that's what they say its for then that's what should be done.
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